Interview with Ted Thomas on Walt Disney
Walt & El Grupo Director Discusses his Documentary
Sep 21, 2009
Ted Thomas' Walt & El Grupo tells more than just the tale of Disney Studio's artistic rebirth in Latin America. It shows a part of how North and South America interacted during the 20th Century.
One of a shrinking group of people who actually knew Walt Disney in his lifetime, the son of legendary animator Frank Thomas also realized that this was his chance to show 'Uncle Walt' without any of the myth and misinformation that have since sprung up around the studio head.
In Part #2 of this interview, Thomas talked about the technical innovations in this film. In this installment, Thomas relates his personal view of Walt Disney, his favourite sequence from Walt & El Grupo, and the thorny issue of Cultural Imperialism.
S101: There’s a real love-him-or-hate-him aspect to Walt Disney. He’s been called a control freak, a genius: how is your picture of a 39-year-old Disney different from all the myths about him?
Ted Thomas: “I think the majority of urban legends about Disney aren’t based on him, or hearing his voice. They’re based on anecdotes other people have told without knowing him personally. As a consequence, it spread this view Walt Disney as something other than flesh-and-blood. You have Disney lovers and haters who talk about things that may not connect to the real guy.
“If you watch a 39-year-old Walt Disney over the span of an hour and a half, you’re gonna get a feeling of him based on your own senses, your own impressions, not filtered through someone who had their own opinions and their own point to make.”
S101: But the film's view of Walt is going to be filtered through your own feelings. What did you think of Disney?
“I’m one of a shrinking group of people who actually met Walt Disney. I met him when I was a child but I grew up hearing stories about him and, when I began working, I became fairly close with many people who worked with him on a regular basis.
“My feeling about Walt is that he was incredibly creative, very driven person who valued, above all else, talent. I feel that Disney detractors form their opinion based on other things. The literature has enough of that, and doesn’t have enough of what I call my perspective. My perspective is different from the fan club or corporate perspective.”
S101: How so?
“The corporate perspective puts Disney up on a pedestal in a way that denies all his personality. It’s more important to give close scrutiny to the things he achieved, the way he built a creative team and the way he collaborated: all of which are there for everyone to see.”
S101: What did making this film do for you as a filmmaker?
“This was an opportunity to give full expression to what (Thomas’ creative partner Kuniko Okubo) have learned over the past 30 years of working in film. I feel all of it was put to use in this picture. (laughs) In terms of story, working with people and production and cinematic vocabulary: it all got put to the test. What’s so exciting is that it was a subject worthy of it, and it gave us the opportunity to dig as deep as we could.”
S101: Is there a sequence that you’re really proud of, and how did it come together?
“About halfway through the film, there’s a sequence in Argentina that begins on the rooftop of the Alvear Palace Hotel, and it finishes there as well. And, in the course of that sequence, you go on a trip that encapsulates the last 6 decades of Latin America. You start on the terrace and literally dive into the photograph and watch El Grupo as they film this group of folk dancers. And you learn the lead dancer’s name is Professor Andrés Chazarreta. We found his grandchildren in Northern Argentina, and they’re carrying on the folkloric tradition: the songs and dances originally collected by their grandfather.
“When Professor Chazarreta was a young man, he had great difficulty being allowed to perform onstage because there was prejudice against allowing gauchos (cowboys) to perform, because theatre owners didn’t want muddy boots on the stage. So, as an artist, he had to overcome that prejudice, and he did."
"Professor Chazarreta’s son was a political activist and he was disappeared by the military dictatorship in the 1970’s. As Chazarreta’s granddaughter Josefina explains, ‘There are two sides to my life. And one helps me withstand the other.’ Her connection with art gives her the strength to deal with the tragedy of her murdered father.
“Then we go back to the dancing, and the dancing in the current day segues into the dancing in 1941, and who’s dancing with the folkloric dancers? Walt Disney! We’ve come full circle, with political history and what it means to an artist.”
S101: Was there anyone who really helped you get a handle on the story of Walt & El Grupo?
“Very early on, when we were trying to get a handle on how to tell the story, I received some very good counsel from a good friend and historian, John Canemaker. He said, ‘You should remember these Good Neighbor Films were not universally embraced in North and South America. And, as you make this film, don’t lose sight of that.’
“You know the scholar and playwright Ariel Dorfman? He wrote a book called How to Read Donald Duck: a very detailed, harsh sociological interpretation of hidden meaning in Donald Duck cartoons, and how it represents cultural imperialism. So, in making the film, we knew we had to tell the story from multiple perspectives. It wasn’t just about Norté Americanos coming to South America, it was a story of cultural exchange. Those who made the journey were affected just as much as those who received those visitors.”
(In Part #4, Thomas discusses how and why vintage movies are often misunderstood.)
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